sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #31 |
Boomerkid, if you knew everything I knew about this town, you would probably be renting a truck tomorrow. One of the most insidious nuances of the "curse" is public awareness of what goes on in Pagosa country. Some don't want to know but most just never get access to the information. Negative statistics drive away potential tourists, speculators and cash carrying house hunters. |
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Ded
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 39
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| #32 |
I read all this chit-chat over the "Pagosa Curse" and it doesn't take much to figure out that you really have no clue as to what you are experiencing. The only "curse" Pagosa was ever inflicted with was when Eaton International and Fairfield came to Pagosa and began to develope Archuleta County immediately outside the city limits. The arrogance of the people who moved into Fairfield towards the townspeople was unbelievable but it brought money into the economy, so most people took a "watch and see" approach to what would occur.
Lo and behold, as both Fairfield and other developments grew, so did a disproportionate impact on Pagosa and other long-time residents of the county. The airport so many complain about was there long before most of any of you "newbies" came and was started by people in Pagosa who knew that a viable airport was a key to future improvement of not only Pagosa but the entire area surrounding town. This feeling of alienation wasn't part of Pagosa then, it was brought in with the people that came from out of state and brought their way of life they just had to leave with them. CC&Rs didn't exist in Pagosa until the incoming flocks decided that conformity was preferable to individuality...it's not and it's the antithesis of what Pagosa originally was.
This is not to paint an idyllic picture of a town with no problems, but most of the population was near Pagosa or in it and therefore many people had a vested interest in what local government did or didn't provide. Going to a town board meeting meant you knew who you were talking to, not just a passing aquaintance. There was time to know your neighbor since all the kids played at various homes or locations, but there was no worry since someone always seemed to be watching. School was one of the common unifiers in the community because that was the focal point of life for many during the school year with summers left for working. The focal point for income was the sawmill...it supplied the most jobs and was 2/3s of the income for Pagosa. The water diversion tunnels brought more people but also increased employment and in conjunction with the sawmill Pagosa enjoyed a mini boom economy that started to slow by the latter part of the 1960's.
As the tunnels closed, the sawmill became the main source of employment for the town and county. That all changed with the onset of the developments previously mentioned. As more people moved in, interdependence on knowing your neighbor decreased and keep out, private property signs proliferated, some to protect a rancher's land, others to protect their 2.5 acres of paradise. It was the beginning of your "Plague." It hasn't stopped since. Houses selling for property values found in Southern California became the norm, not the exception and the plague grew.
Now I read the Sun and I can see the same problems there that exist wherever people came from. The pettiness and division from all the different factions would make anyone competent stay away from public service. The County commisioners should get combat pay for having to deal with all the personalities they represent. How hard is it to understand that the county has no obligation to plow a private road? How hard is it to understand that Pagosa will NEVER be a whitewater kyaking mecca except in the Spring? With all the financial problems, a $400,000.00 arena is now proposed? Someone is either insane or going to profit from pushing that one through! Why do you go to Farmington or Durango to buy groceries? Aren't those Mom and Pop stores meeting your needs? After all, no one really wants a Wal-Mart to ruin the small-town esthetics of Pagosa do they? If there was a plague that came to Pagosa, it was a plague of locusts of the two-legged variety and that isn't going away in the near future unless the economy gets so bad people have to either leave or get along because the tourists are going to slow down more and more. There's more, but I'll leave it at that for now. That should be enough for some reflection on the :Plague." Ded.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #33 |
This is one of the oddest things I've read at this site. Are you the editor from The Free Press? :)
I choose to comment on one subject: shopping out of town.
Why do we go to FMN and DGO to shop for groceries? Because City Market has a horribly limited selection of products, products with past due "sell by" dates and they foist the Kroger (SP?) brand upon us. The meat department is unspeakably nasty and dirty (get in the back and check it out someday - IF they'll let you). I've been back there; I will not buy any fresh meats at the store. City Market keeps a CRUMMY produce department which is unnecessarily over-priced. They would rather throw away spoiling vegetables and fruit rather than lower the prices!
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #34 |
In response to Ded
You said that the folks involved in this "chit chat" didn't have a clue as to what we were talking about and supplied us with a concise history of Pagosa. A summary of your treatise could be that all of us are the very "plague" that ruined Pagosa, starting with the development of Fairfield. In essence, we are our own enemy.
I think you are correct about the recent history of Pagosa but in error with some of your comments. I don't know of any "mom and pop" grocery stores in Pagosa. City Market is a part of a large, national chain of stores. I also am not ignorant to the long-time presence of the airport and know the history well. The airport we have now is no comparison to what it was only 5 years ago. You will have to get up pretty early to convince me that the airport is so necessary for the salvation of Pagosa.
I will conclude by stating some facts about my own experience in Pagosa. When I came, I painfully encounterd a large group of shallow, close-minded, corrupt and disfunctional people, in government and private business. I saw those same people over the years be the main reason other, more responsible people leave Pagosa. I experienced my own loss of a career over two of those in that class of locals. My very life was threatened and my integrity was challenged beyond belief. I witnessed improrpriety amuck, major wrongs swept under the table and that has not changed very much as we approach 2009. The predominant change has been the replacement of one misfit with another.
You are absoulutey right. It it is a plague of two-legged people, predominantly , transplants, but don't be too quick to disparage the "curse", as we examine evidence of the "dark side" on both ends of town.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #35 |
I knew you'd make sense of that muck, sunsetalk2000! Thanks for having the energy and the intelligence to leave such a sensible rebuttal!!!! |
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Boomerkid
Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 22
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| #36 |
Why do I go to Durango and Farmington to shop? Because I cannot afford to shop in Pagosa. I feel taken advantage of every time I buy something in this town and therefore make my weekly (sometimes twice a week) trip west on 160. The cost of gas is not a factor to me when I can still net a savings of a couple of hundred dollars a month or more on groceries, clothing, etc. elsewhere. I have run across more unscrupulous business owners in this town than I can count. I refuse to support that type of environment with my money.
As the previous poster mentioned, the grocery choices we have are not good. You do have to look at expiration dates on everything you buy at City Market because odds are it has either expired or will in the next few days.
I was born and raised in Colorado and small town living is not new to me. However, in my opinion this small town is going downhill faster than any place I've ever seen. Get the mayor of 30 years to retire and seat a 5-member board of county commisioners....mayber that can get things on track.
Keep Pagosa, Pagosa. Yeah, right.
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Ded
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 39
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| #37 |
So it seems you are somewhat familiar with problems in Pagosa since you relay information that is relevant to what I said. Now we need to establish that I am not the editor of the "Free Press" whatever that maybe. Second, the reference to the "mom and pop" stores I referred to are/were mentioned in "Letters to the Editor" in the Sun that pop up from time to time extolling the virtues of said stores and their value in keeping Pagosa "Pagosa." Unlike you, I can recall "mom and pop" stores in Pagosa as well as stores that existed well before City Market and its business model.
As to the Mayor, I believe that is determined by residents of Pagosa proper, not by the county. In addition, just exactly what powers does the Mayor actually have other than presiding over meetings of the Town Board? As I remember, not very much. Considering that since Mayor Aragon has been re-elected for 30 years, there isn't a large demand for that office is there, or are there not enough go-getters that want to be involved in local politics? The population of Pagosa is approximately the same as it was in 1970 plus or minus which would be around 1274 people. The real growth has occurred in the county exponentially from that date to its current level, with the resultant increase in demands for services not supported by the tax base in Archuleta County.
The current brouhah over methane and oil extraction in the HD mountains (where in hell are the HD mountains anyway?) is just another example of everyone held hostage to the environmentalist fringe that, while in a minority, are well organized and very vocal, can stop needed development of natural resources that are abundant in Archuleta County. Properly developed, royalties from extraction of energy sources could alleviate much of the shortage of funds that seem to be a topic of concern to many. Despite the fact that there was a coal mine on Hwy 151 that did exactly this, it was closed because it was violating ancient burial grounds or some such tripe that it was closed. Oh well, one more example of PC over actual needs, but I digress.
If City Market is as you claim it to be, have you notified the Dept. of Health to investigate? Has anyone investigated the feasibility of opening another market to offer a choice to what you now have? I'd be betting on no and no to each question, so you drive to Farmington or Durango @ $4.00/gal and still save money? I have no idea how an individual managed to cause you so much grief, did you seek legal recourse? Probably not since justice in Pagosa is largely a joke when it comes to the Judiciary and the quality of the legal system. Oh yes, you are not alone when it comes to application of the law in what, in my opinion, is often a capricious and biased application of the law, but that's more small town living you have to endure.
The problem is that Pagosa and Archuleta County are restrained by geography and climate to a much smaller population than currently exists. This in itself creates problems that, combined with the big city mindset that exists in some areas of the business community actually creates the mindset you refer to as the "Plague", which I can also assure you is not a new saying as it was used long before either of you ever came to Pagosa. Realty seems to be the one big business in Pagosa and its in their (realtors) to paint a wonderful picture of Pagosa which they do. Beautiful country, no mention of crime rates, no mention that the dirt road that you drove to your property on in the summer turns into a bottomless quagmire when its wet, that the outlying roads are gravel and because of all the added traffic are filled with potholes and are a danger to drive on....that would make me want to pay a cool million for the privilege of living in "God's Country!" Not!!!
Things are, in many ways, better in Pagosa now than previously. There is a nursing home, low-income housing, internet, local radio, etc., that make information more available but there are still few activities for kids to gather and have fun except at school and I have no idea if the schools still sponsor dances, etc. for all or if any other organization does so. This is enough for now, there is no need to hog bandwidth, but I do want to thank the Sun's owners for this forum to discuss things you will not read in the paper. Until next time, take care and watch the deer. Ded.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #38 |
Yes, thanks are in order to the Sun for this forum. What fun to hear opinions, facts, ideas, etc. from others in our "community" of non-community! |
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #39 |
Agree. Many thanks to the Sun for this forum. I will go ahead and suggest that the posts are pretty much saying the same thing, using different words. We have big problems in place and few solutions in evidence.
We all love the safety of Pagosa, knowing what is out there in other communities. Believe me, I cringe when I read about what goes on in my home town. Unfortunately, this safe haven seems to sedate many into unconsciousness or lack of awareness.
As for the Free Press, I learned quite some time ago it was either sold or turned over to another party and that Mr. Baker is no longer in Pagosa. Whether you agreed with Baker or not, he, along with the Pagosa Daily Post started a movement in the right direction.
If we continue to attract and hold a majority of part-timers, I don't see how the sense of community can return or develop naturally. That is the reason I started this particular thread, redefining Pagosa.
My limited understanding of life in America tells me that a community must have a broad base of employers, to attract and hold working families. Working people are the backbone of this country, not politicians and large corporations. If our majority is made up of only slightly interested parties, or absentee residents, then that seems to cancel out the voice of the working, middle class.
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JSR
Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 10
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| #40 |
I also thank The Sun for this forum. Because of the blogs, I will have to let my visits determine where we end up but as for now we will be looking at other options. It is still hard to believe that a place so beautifulcould haqrbor so many hard feelings about the past and not look to the future and try to make a difference. I recon we see life as it can be not how it has been. Thanks again and i'll drop by from time totime to see whats going on.
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my wife and i and my daughter are moving in the spring. we are very excited! |
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #41 |
To JSR
God bless you sir and I hope for the best for you and your family, no matter where you go.
What you have to understand is that many of us are now living in the "future" , as we have watched, waited, talked, voted and hoped many years for a more desirable Pagosa.
Over the past quarter century, one disturbing question has burned holes in my soul, as I read about or even visited the location of numerous suicides. How can someone end their life, surrounded by such magnificent beauty? The only answer I can supply is that we need so much more than a beautiful environment. Our well-being depends on a sense of belonging.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #42 |
Again I shall re-iterate the comments and feelings AND agree with the previous comment. No need to rewrite what is so appropriate and true. |
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planatlaw
Registered: 10/15/08
Posts: 21
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| #43 |
I have to paraphrase a saying that goes - the only constant is change. PS is not really re-defining itself as much as it is seeking to define itself. Unfortunately, the Town and County just have not had good consistent leadership to provide guidance in developing a good community plan that lays out the commonalities people want to preserve, and what they want to fix. When gas was cheap, many communities lost their character as people moved about so much, but now that we are passed that, and finite limits on what local people are willing to pay for, it will become much more important.
My concern as leadership changes, is that we will see fewer standards, more opportunity for sprawl development, and less concern for future planning. Already, we are seeing developers move to secure development rights for extended lengths of time, which they can sit on or sell at some later date. Elected officials are much too concerned about short term development action then long term fiscally responsible planning.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #44 |
Our town planners didn't require David Brown to have anything in the planning stages before allowing him to tear down all the buildings he removed from downtown. When his brain cancer returned and he had to leave PS for specialized medical treatment, downtown became the "ghost town" it is. Our town planners and the council are to blame for most of what doesn't and does happen here, not developers. |
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #45 |
Ditto on the poor planning. The city and the county are continuously promoting development, while the current infrastructure has not come close to catching up to the last ten years of growth.
A prime example of woeful infrastructure happened yesterday. My wife had two stops to make in Pagosa Lakes, the densely populated part, not way out in the boonies. No streets were plowed, so she got stuck and had to have assistance to get back to North Pagosa. No one could locate the edge of the street, due to the snow. Our county road was not plowed either, which creates all sort of problems meeting another vehicle. I had to run into town and got stuck myself, when I met another vehicle. They were far less generous with the road. They didn't stop either. Fortunately, I was able to get free without assistance. My wife and I both have 4wd vehicles, incidentally.
I guess we just have a little county that got too big for it's britches.
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