sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #61 |
I haven't seen anybody on this forum beating the "big box" drum but really don't see how large retailers are such a disaster for a town. The writer could be correct that a big box wouldn't even come to Pagosa, however, I know of a lot of towns across the country with the same big stores in close proximity. I don't know how these companies compute their location formulas.
The thing that sticks out with me is you see all these folks from Pagosa, shopping at big boxes in Durango, Farmington and even Santa Fe. How does Pagosa benefit from these people travelling to other towns to do their shopping? I am not wise in complex economics but it sure seems to me that a plan to keep the dollars here can only be beneficial to everyone.
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Boomerkid
Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 22
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| #62 |
I think big boxes are a draw to a community and I believe there are statistics out there to prove that. I don't think Wal Mart has hurt Durango's downtown business at all. I base that on trying to find a parking place on main street in downtown Durango almost any day of the week. I heard somewhere that they are trying to bring in a Target and Best Buy in 2009.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #63 |
WalMart has a "cute" little store design specifically for small towns. Wouldn't one be nice at the corner of 160 and Hwy 84? Not all WalMarts are mammoths with acres of parking lot - there are many sizes to accommodate many sizes of towns.
I'm not advocating big box explosion in Pagosa on Farmington's scale, or even Durango's, but our big box referendum prevented Albertson's and Safeway from opening stores in Pagosa last year. They both were considering sites in Aspen Village, the area where Sears and Dollar Store are located. They agreed that the one who got approval first would go forward and the other would bow out. To me, Dollar Store is a big box and it hasn't ruined the atmosphere of Pagosa...the empty lots downtown are considered big box spaces, too. How could filling those empty spaces with "big boxes" hurt us?
Chama, Dulce, South Fork, Ignacio and our neighboring communities would flock to Pagosa Springs instead of zipping through town to shop in DGO and FMN! A few big box stores would bring shoppers. Shoppers who want to eat at cafes and restaurants and wander our scenic downtown shopping in specialty stores, and probably having time for a hot tub soak and relaxation because they wouldn't have a long, long drive back home!
Pagosa might not regret growing if our economy was growing our pocketbooks and our bank accounts!
You are right, boomerkid, WalMart did not adversely affect downtown Durango businesses at all!
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #64 |
At the risk of being negatively labeled, I will go ahead and say that Pagosa has kept its current definition by the power of a few people with money and local longevity. That, coupled with the ridiculous split between Pagosa Lakes and the rest of the town, keeps movement in reverse.
A few years ago, Archuleta County hated Pagosa Lakes Public Safety to the point of their elimination from existence. It was a carefully orchestrated execution, planned and carried out by a few, while the rest of the population had no input or control.
In summary, until the right kind of thinking is in place, with an overwhelming community input and support, we are doomed to repeat our disfunctional behavior.
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Boomerkid
Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 22
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| #65 |
It is a shame that those of us who live in the Pagosa Lakes area have no input into any of the towns rules or regulations that impact all of us. I had no clue when I moved here several years ago that there was this legal separation between the two areas; I thought Pagosa Lakes was just another neighborhood of Pagosa Springs. I wish our realtor would have mentioned that, if only to clear up my later confusion about not being allowed to vote for the mayor, city councilors, etc. I'm all for annexing the two areas or else creating a new municipality called Pagosa Lakes with our own mayor, etc., etc.
Any vote for a big box store coming in would probably be left to those few voters in the town of Pagosa, which I am now beginning to understand control the whole area. The majority of the population live in the west side of county, Pagosa Lakes, etc., yet are the ones with the least amount of input into decisions for the area.
What I see are a bunch of narrow minded community leaders and business owners that don't understand the loss of tax dollars leaving the county and the impact it is having on the area. Are some of these small business owners so afraid that they'll lose a dollar if a big box comes in? If so, then they need to wake up and reinvent themselves/their businesses and welcome the people that a big box would bring in. What a great opportunity it could be for them!
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #66 |
My husband and I commuted from Bayfield to Pagosa for over a year before we bought our PS home. After learning Pagosa Lakes and PLPOA are alienated from all things involving Pagosa Springs, and after learning how oddly PLPOA is run (our work required regular interaction), we knew we didn't want to live in "Durango East.". Right, Boomerkid, there is a petty attitude towards the west side of PS - including name-calling. Very little makes sense in Pagosa but the silliness of segregation from Pagosa Lakes is just the tip of iceberg.
Realtors tend to tell potential buyers what they want to hear. Some intentionally and some due to ignorance and/or lack of knowledge and research. I urge all home buyers to confirm what a realtor says. Not all realtors are dishonest, but many realtors are unknowledgeable. Wouldn't you have liked to know about the differences between Pagosa Lakes government and Pagosa Springs and Archuleta County governments?
My husband and I have never used a realtor; we've bought four homes and sold three, all without realtors. We buy directly from owners and sell by owner. I have a bumper sticker saying "I like lawyers better than realtors," but my husband thinks it is too mean to display. His attitude baffles me, since local realtors often ignore our invoices after their closing falls through. When they don't get the commission, 80% of them don't pay for the professional services my husband provided (which is paid at closing). Now he provides his services for only a few local real estate companies because the broker pays the invoices whether the realtor's sale occurs or not.
Maybe my husband wouldn't object to a bumper sticker saying: When buying a home, do your homework. |
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #67 |
The last two posts were excellent. Keep up the good work, as you are "telling it like it is", not the chamber version.
One of the most horrible defintions of Pagosa I have seen over the years is this concept of "Pagosa time". It has been used to cover the most blatant irresponsibility. If you live on Pagosa time, you can do what you want, when you want and don't have to answer to anyone. According to the professors, this idea is what makes Pagosa such a nice place to live. I think that is hogwash!!!
I knew a family that came here and started a business. They became so frustrated with people saying one thing and doing another, not showing up on time or sometimes not at all, they packed up and left. These were very fine people and honest professionals in their business dealings.
I ran into this as well in some of my small business dealings and was disgusted with some attitudes and behaviors coming from the very ones who were at the very front of the church on Sunday.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #68 |
Oh, my gosh! I have avoided addressing the horrible expression, "Pagosa time" on this blog, but again, we're thinking the same thoughts!
I refuse to use the term and neither my husband nor myself do business on Pagosa time! The horror stories about the idiots who are actually living and working ON Pagosa time abound!
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #69 |
I only mentioned the infamous term because I have been a victim of it twice today.
One guy, who I helped numerous times this summer, told me he would widen my driveway with his machine this winter. He has been by several times today and didn't even slow down and had to notice the condition of my drive.
The other guy, who I talked to on the phone this morning, said he would be out after lunch and now it is dark and he is a no show. This particular person has hit me now several times with this behavior.
Both these guys have lived here for many years and must live and die by this creed, Pagosa time.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #70 |
You were relying on the "no shows" and you would have appreciated call backs letting you know they wouldn't arrive today and offers to reschedule. What is the solution? Schedule two or three of the needed workers and send away duplicate arrivals? Highly unlikely there would be duplications, of course!
The no showing experience never happened to me ONCE in all the years I lived in Durango and all the years I lived in Bayfield. To this day, businesses I deal with in DGO, BYFD and even Farmington are here when they say they will be here.
Every day my husband is thanked for calling back his clients to confirm appointment times or alert them of delays and reschedule. New clients are always shocked by the promptness of his call backs and his determination to meet deadlines. I believe his refusal to work on Pagosa Time is the main reason he's still in business when many of his competitors have come and gone.
Countless times clients have told him how they just gave up on trying to reach his competitors who never called back after several messages were left at offices and/or on voice mail. Sometimes, we end up finishing jobs that our competitors have abandoned uncompleted, without explanations to the client.
Pagosa Time is just an excuse for laziness and dishonesty.
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #71 |
In response to the last post, what a shame and a disgrace for a town to have such a bifurcated reputation. One group advertises paradise, another has the opposite experience. I am very thankful, however, that this information is being delivered frankly in this forum.
For those readers who view this information with suspicion, I urge you to check things out carefully. There are plenty of people who know the realities of Pagosa, not just the few who comment in this venue.
Sadly, there are so many who have left Pagosa, broken and battered for various reasons. This little town can put a hurtin on you, if you don't have the assets to overcome or simply ignore it, like many do.
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Ded
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 39
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| #72 |
It's interesting to read the different comments re life in Pagosa in 2008 almost 2009 and find out that things haven't changed much since the mid-70's up to now as far as many things go. In previous posts, the value of the sawmill to not only Pagosa, but to Archuleta county was given as 2/3s of the tax base of the county. You remove that and the impact should be obvious.
As for the divisiveness between Pagosa and PPLOA, Pagosa Lakes, etc., that goes back to the inception of said development that didn't want to be part of Pagosa proper but took great pride in not needing to realize that they were coming into a town and area that had taken pains to modernize, yet not cause total upheaval in people's lives. The infrastructure of "Pagosa West" didn't exist when Fairfield began its development, water rights were insufficient and the demands on Pagosa's own antiquated water system couldn't provide what was eventually needed. This led to PAWS in which Pagosa essentially gave up its water rights for "Pagosa West."
Fast forwarding, most of the major develpments were made on ranchland, spreading out into the oakbrush hills and then everywhere. Despite the protestations of those who now live there and want to keep Pagosa "Pagosa" have their crainiums in a very uncomfortable position. The wildlife was disrupted, in some areas poaching was a way of stocking the freezer on the cheap, there were suddenly no where you could go without some "newbie" popping up where you seldom ever saw anyone. That and the idea that just because you had money, the townspeople would automatically love you really didn't set well with families that were 4th, 5th or more generation residents of the area.
On the discussion of "Pagosa Time", I'm willing to wager that most practitioners are just like you....they moved there from somewhere else and brought that "who cares" attitude with them. You need to find a way to deal with that, that's a problem that has little to do with Pagosa. Remarking on the PPLOA safety patrol or whatever, I seem to remember that they were acting as police without the prerequiste training and oversight required to play Barny Fife and there were just as many people in PL that thought the same way. It wasn't all that nice, lot of name calling and hurt feelings but unfortunately for them, Colorado law prevailed.
On the big boxes, the preservationists (newbies) were the ones wanting to maintain that "small town esthetic" and bullied the big box ban through, but in reality you are not going to pull in people more than 30 miles away west of Pagosa as you can go to DGO, FMTN, just as easily and who in hell would drive over Wolf Creek to shop in Pagosa? Hmmmm, people who think nothing of driving 60+ miles just like where they came from, of course. Now the development on Wolf Creek is on hold, just as well, it would have added nothing to Pagosa but some jobs and maybe tourism, but not much. Re the price of housing in Telluride. Telluride has a nationally know music festival, skiing and a better view than Pagosa so why wonder that housing values would be so high? I would imagine there are a lot of very wealthy people who own those homes who can care less. What does Pagosa offer in comparison?
As for realtors, don't people read the contracts? Why did you think you could vote in Pagosa if you didn't live there? That seems like a no-brainer to me, but you can try and explain it to me but don't use the big city sprawl excuse for your confusion. Your Pagosa is far different than mine, but that's because I don't think you ever understand a place until you become a part of it. I read about people who seem to have made the transition and they seem to be doing just fine. The Christmas Wreath incident of a few years ago is a case in point. How that got on the internet or was even a bone of contention baffles me, but that's your new ways imploding on yourselves. All the problems you seem to have are a direct result of not leaving behind the things you so desperately moved away from (or others). You gotta shovel snow? Get outta town, you mean it snows there? Uh yeah, but now it seems to paralyze every entity in Pagosa, schools, town and county facilities, Wolf Creek, you'd think it was little house on the prarie. Alas, time is short and I must go. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Ded.
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Boomerkid
Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 22
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| #73 |
Ded,
If you bought a home in the area and were given a Pagosa Springs mailing address and Pagosa Springs zip code would you not think that you lived in Pagosa Springs? Hence my reason for thinking I could actually vote on Pagosa Springs issues when in fact, a Pagosa Springs resident that lives in the Pagosa Lakes area cannot. Something most realtors conveniently forget to tell you. There is nothing in the contract explaining this issue, only that you will be paying annual property owner association dues.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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JSR
Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 10
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| #75 |
Ded Its been several days since I visited this forum and it would seem that there was a lot of chatting I missed. you said your Padosa was not their Pagosa, so whats your take. My wife and I are moving into sw Colorado in the summer , I have been looking at PS hard until I met some folks on this forum. It makes me want to look at Ignacio, Hesperus, Chama etc.. A different viewpoint would be nice. We come from a town of 680 people so small town is just right for us but at the same time getting in the middle of a "family fued" is not my idea of where we want to raise our children. My wife will be working with Native Americans in the field of criminal justice and i hope to expand my business to southern Colorado and get a safety coordinator position . Thanks for your input.
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my wife and i and my daughter are moving in the spring. we are very excited! |
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