sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #76 |
In Response to Ded:
I wouldn't want to speculate on the accuracy or viability of most of your post, however, on several points, you are so wrong.
First of all, I didn't bring any attitude or demands with me when I came to Pagosa. My only requirement was to be treated, as kindly and honestly as I treat other people, not a lot to ask of an adult. I was hit with the "Pagosa" way on day one and by the time the day was over, I was in shock. My wife and I wondered what we had done. I did know about the snow and lots of it, having lived and worked in Durango for many years.
Also, this issue with the Pagosa Lakes Department of Public Safety was delivered to the public with the facts skewed in favor of the county and their efforts to eliminate the agency. The truth is, the PLPS officers had the same credentials as every other police officer in the state. This fact was distorted to make it appear they were untrained and unqualified and had to have a "real" officer with them at all times. The reason they could get away with this was that the Pagosa Lakes officers were working for an unincorporated entity, giving them a rather unusual classification with the State of Colorado. The evidence suggests that this whole mess was initiated by one individual, who was very unhappy with the Pagosa Lakes Public Safety. Have you already forgotten the resulting lawsuit against Archuleta County, the Sheriff, the Undersheriff and one other ranking officer, that resulted in the loss of millions of taxpayer dollars?
As much as we would like to separate one thing from another and are carefully herded into that direction by Pagosa news, surprisingly, many, many issues are tied together by the same string.
I am primarily concerned with words of truth, documented fact and exposure of impropriety to the general public. Not because I hate Pagosa. We all adore the place, it's people and it's beauty but we must love truth, honor and integrity above all.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #77 |
JSR - Considering your chosen lines of work, you and your wife would probably do much better career-wise and find more personal satisfaction for your family in Ignacio (headquarters of the Southern Ute Tribe). You'd be much closer to Bayfield and Durango and have quick access to Farmington (only a few miles from the Navajo Reservation). All those areas are racially integrated and accepting of racial diversity. Pagosa is a racially unfriendly area, unless your race is Anglo. Twelve years ago there was one African American family living in Pagosa Springs; they left long ago. Today I believe there is not one single African American living in PS and Native Americans only come to soak in what used to be their sacred place, the hot springs. There is a strand of the Bible Belt that extends into PS which taints the town's racial acceptance. My recommendation is to VISIT Pagosa, Ignacio, Bayfield, Farmington, etc. before making the drastic decision to move here. |
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pagosasucks
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 8
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| #78 |
I just moved out of Pagosa after living there over two years. It's more than Pagosa Time (which I've heard defined as Pa-go-slow). Personally I've never lived in any town where the day-to-day dealings of people and businesses were so totally dishonest, deceptive and unprofessional. I signed 2 contracts while living in PS and needed an attorney for both since their actions were against their very own contract, and, yes, one of those involved a local realtor. I had squatter neighbors who wanted half of my land for free and other neighbors and professionals actually said to me, "Why don't you give it to them?". I am not rich, and I've worked hard for everything that I have. I sure wasn't inclined to pay extra for more land just to turn around and give it to the lazy people next door who wanted it. These are socialism principles which seem to abound in PS. I also found that a lot of PS people are alcoholics, and their reason for living begins when that bottle is unscrewed. Maybe this is why PS residents' brains don't seem to function very well. |
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JSR
Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 10
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| #79 |
Sherill-Thanks for being upfront and giving of the information.It would appear that integrity still abides in PS.My wife and I are both Anglo with a rich heritage of diversity,like ALL of us. My wife just happens to be very passionate about the wrongs of yesterday. Again I thank you and am very glad to have come across this forum, it has helped in several ways. I'm sure we will visit several places and now we know what to expect there. Even though I'm an outsider , it seems still that PS answers lie in its people. Leadership comes from within. If you can't lead one , you can't lead any, but, a leader of one can be a leader of many. That leader is ourself. Attitude is everything. You become what you think about. I would think about that.
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my wife and i and my daughter are moving in the spring. we are very excited! |
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #80 |
Everyone's stories at the forum are interesting. I seem to have a connection or similar experience with the majority of posts. Guess that proves I'm right when I say I've lived here too long! Wish I could afford to leave!
The post from "pagosasucks" is too, too familiar in my husband's profession. Three of his competitors were alcoholics (the ones mentioned earlier who left town). They weren't binge drinkers but daily AM to PM drinkers. Their professional consequences still affect many land and real estate transactions in Archuleta County. Two lost their professional licenses after leaving town.
Correcting their mistakes requires my husband's time/ fees plus attorneys' time/fees to resolve the errors then legally re-file the corrections with the County Clerk, both of which must be done before the property can legally close and exchange hands.
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pagosasucks
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 8
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| #81 |
Hey Sherrill -- I probably hired your husband to prove that my land was mine! When I first moved to Pagosa I thought I was in Nirvana, and I will miss the beauty and the surface water, that's for sure. But the attitude of Pagosans as a whole wears on ya after a while. I'm a business consultant and graphic designer, and I was amazed at the number of "rich" business people (and they were rich, came to town with money, didn't need to make a profit 'cause they just had to order up some more money from the trust fund or from mom and dad) who wanted me to work for next to nothing and/or wanted me to wait for a year to be paid 'cause that's the way it works in PS.
What I ultimately discovered, though, it's not just the town, but the State of Colorado. It has not enacted laws that benefit consumers or the little guys that everyone now takes for granted coming from other states. For example, the rent-to-own a home scam that I got caught in would be illegal in other states, but legal in CO. Another great example as Colorado entices this money from out-of-state to move in, is the lack of qualifications and licensing for the builders and contractors. Totally, amazing . . . in Colorado you can be sure your plumbing and electrical will work, but the ridge beam over your head just might fall in and that's AOK. I really couldn't believe a lot of the "houses" that have been built in Archuleta County during the past five years. Before you buy, you better look realllllll closely, or you'll be dealing with those house problems until you sell the lemon.
I'm not really a person who likes lots of laws, but the lack of consumer legislation only brings the scammers, sleazy people and crooks because it's all set up for them to operate their schemes.
Overall, I found an extreme lack of morals and ethics in PS.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #82 |
Hi, Pagosasucks! I bet you did hire my husband! Your story sure sounds familiar!
I also loved Pagsoa when we first moved here. Now I would give up all the beauty and all the hiking and fishing and snow sports forever if I could move. My husband really likes Pagosa but he's originally from Durango and loves Colorado. I am from New Mexico and I've just never felt at home or at ease in Colorado.
I attached a picture of Lewis Street in yesterday's sunshine - hope it is here!Attached Images:
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #83 |
The most recent posts expose one of the carefully hidden secrets of Pagosa country that has troubled me for years. The fact is, largely unreported, that Pagosa country has a disproportionate rate of substance abuse, domestic violence and disreputable behavior in a position of trust.
My struggles with this include the basic, why, in such a romantically beautiful atmosphere. Couple that with the thought of a more sinister, corporate denial. Add to the above, the trajedy of the human cost, neglected by the community, glazed over in print and relegated to anonymity by the smiling faces of the happy tourists.
They largely disappear behind the dust of the moving truck, only to be quickly replaced by another family of prospectors, seeking a new life in the magical, Rocky mountain west.
The greatest despair of all is many of us personally knowing some of these local, stories of shame and seeking to understand the origin, beyond our acceptance of basic human depravity. I think about these people all the time, some moved on, others in the ground and others just languishing in the stagnation of their own lives.
My personal knowledge of local trajedies keeps me in thought and prayer, more and more these days. My wife and I frequently talk about them, in honor of their life, alive or dead and speculating on their existence now, if they are still with us.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #84 |
Remembering those who are you talking about and praying for them is all you, me and lay people like us can do. No one can be forced into treatment for alcohol or drugs. Your sentiments are clearly heartfelt. From the day we moved to Pagosa the tragedies and behavior you acknowledge became clearer and clearer to us.
My husband hired a young man knowing he'd been through drug treatment and was attending mandatory AA meetings. He was on probation for his alcohol and drug addiction and abusive behavior; he was drug tested monthly in Durango. We felt sorry for him because he was supporting his best friend's widow and three young sons, who lost their husband/father when he drown in Lake Pagosa: fell from a little fishing boat very drunk and drown.
We finally had to lay off this young man after almost two years of struggling to deal with his dishonesty, no-showing to work and disappearing mid-day not to return. He was an office employee; he was smart, outgoing and clients liked him. I was shocked when he told me he "couldn't wait to get off probation" so he could begin doing heroin again.
We don't know where he is now...we know he went to Denver for a few months and got clean. But he returned to Pagosa and started doing drugs/drinking with his friend's widow and her addicted parents. He left again and we haven't heard from him since.
His is only one of the many tragedies we've experienced first hand. Imagine how many tragic, addictive lives are being lived in secrecy in PS? Imagine how many helpless children are affected by their care-takers' addictions? |
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #85 |
By definition, Pagosa country is relatively crime free. You can authenticate that with the available statistics.
Then there is the activity that goes on, totally unknown to the majority of the population. On the surface, Pagosa is one of the most beautiful places on earth but underneath lurks a hideous tangle of drugs, deception and depravity. Sounds like most towns, except for the most beautiful part. What makes a place like Pagosa so different from other towns is the layer that conceals the ugly stuff. In most areas of the country, the bad juju is up front and in your face.
I was privy to a great example of this recently. A family came here from the city, a very large city. They had little to no problems with their teenager until they hit Pagosa. I discussed this with the father and he told me that he had never seen such a powerful, negative peer influence anywhere before Pagosa. They bailed to save themselves and their child.
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Ded
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 39
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| #86 |
Re # 75:
JSR: I won't blow any smoke at you. It's not easy to get into the "heart" of Pagosa nor the spirit that goes on that I read and has been told to me, have no doubt that there are illegal dealings going on, it seems there is a drug problem that now warrants unannounced dog testing for drugs in the local high school, etc., why people do business as crooks is like asking why there is air? There weren't that many crooks in Pagosa, but then almost everyone knew who they were and you proceeded at your own risk.
Pagosa and Colorado law is also relatively dysfunctional in that they can determine innocence or guilt for many reasons, yet determines a property line by use of a "big rock"! You'd be schocked to know Pagosa has leash laws going back to the '60's but they're not enforced because the dogcatcher got threats on his life? Now you don't argue with the local constabulary but I wouldn't be a policeman in Pagosa now either. Knowing your neighbor and them knowing you stops a lot of foolishness but there are too many people in and around to get to "know" now is one contributor to "Pagosa Plague." Most of the others are just small town problems you've probably encountered already. Bring lots of money, that's a good thing in Pagosa, just don't mention it downtown...you'll have it longer and get a better class of friends.
My last tidbit is don't tick someone off until you find out who they are. Obviously there are cliques and people in places of influence and why add to any more problems by alienating one or more of them? Just be ready for the culture shock you'll need to deal with, there are good people in Pagosa, finding them is the hard part, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.. Ded.
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KevD444
Registered: 12/29/08
Posts: 1
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| #87 |
If you'll indulge this native Texan, I'd like to throw in my own thoughts on your city.
At the ripe age of 34, I have had the fortune of travelling to Pagosa my entire life - even if only for a week at a time once a year. To leave the flat, barren cotton fields of West Texas and arrive in a land of such natural beauty was and still remains something that brings a smile to my face and warmth to my soul.
Now living in the DFW Metro area, this year alone, my partner and I have travelled to Pagosa twice totalling 3 weeks - can you tell we just can't get enough? For years, we have had the pleasure of spending our time with those at Bruce Spruce Ranch, Dena at Sunset and even splurged a time or two at the resort. We look forward to having coffee and breakfast at Elk Horn and chit-chatting with Nanette. This year, we had the pleasure of skiing the slopes with Giselda. Do you see a pattern - we certainly do and this pattern of simply genuine people that we have met is just one of the things that keeps us comin' back.
After 11 years as a writer/marketer for a financial insitution, I'm now one of the many unemployed and looking for work. And although we can't do it now because there is not work in Pagosa Springs to support us, one day we will be able to relocate and join you.
Whether you see your fine city in a positive or negative light, this Texan can't wait to get there. We'll leave the rat race behind, break out of the corporate cubicle jail and finally come to the place that seems to whisper "Welcome Home" each time we arrive.
Thanks for sharing your 'little piece of heaven' with us.
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inthehills
Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 1
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| #88 |
Most of us couldn't wait to get here. Pagosa is very good at "appearing" to be a charming small rocky mountain town. There is something that is different here though and I say this as a person who lived in Paonia CO so I know first hand it isn't all the laws or lack of certain kind of laws in Colorado. In Paonia the laws were not necessary because people had integrity, not so in Pagosa. The corruption in Pagosa unfortunately hits every level. From the issues with "Pagosa time" to the people who claim to be professionals and lie and cheat you at every opportunity. There are good people here and good businesses but unless you know exactly who you are dealing with in advance it is a crap shoot and the odds are you will get screwed. The court system is a farce here, so you need to be aware that should you need to go before a judge for some reason that being right and having proof is meaningless. I find the oddest aspect of this town being the claim that it is about tourism, because this town does everything it can to work against being a true tourist town. They are the only big hot springs town in Colorado without a large family swimming pool that allows not only local kids and families but tourist with families to enjoy the springs. The information shared on travel sites about Pagosa is that our hotel/motels are crappy dirty overpriced places. How exactly does not taking care of the town and it's buildings by the businesses that have been here forever with owners that are born and raised here promote tourism. The natural beauty that Pagosa has should make it an easy rival for true Colorado tourist towns. I thought it was just me, my mom and brother who moved here together that experienced this sense of isolation mentioned by other posters. I have lived in small towns in CO MT WA and AZ and have never experienced that anywhere. I think in part it comes from knowing that if you interact with 100 different people in this town that 99 will be corrupt in some way and it is too tiring to find the 1 out of 100 that are worth getting to know. |
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #89 |
This last post has led me to conclude that my feelings have been substantiated time and time again and the evidence is overwhelming. Pagosa country has a unique set of social and economic problems, repeating themselves over and over again, while efforts to correct them have been stymied by improper diagnosis and denial. If I have this right, then somebody please agree.
My first question is and has been, what can we do about it? Voting doesn't seem to make a difference. Letters and forums haven't solved anything that I can see, although it sure is nice to ventilate with like-minded people. The various lawsuits haven't done anything but improve the lifestyles of the barristers. There have been meetings on top of meetings, resulting in the same, questionable, decision making. How can we overcome and replace this continuua of decline?
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #90 |
Yes, it is your right and I whole-heartedly agree with you and the previous post. Again and again we read the same things about Pagosa and the majority of people living here.
Before the post about the lack of an affordable, community hot springs with a big family-style pool (i.e. Ouray) I was thinking the same thing. What is here for families? How many local families can afford to enjoy a soak in this greedy town? While a huge new hotel is going up to accommodate more tourists, the locals continue to be left out of the mix.
Something that puzzles me: why do Texans, in particular, seem to be enchanted with this place? Is it because most of Texas is so bleak? I found the Texan's post ironic. That's how I felt about Pagosa for years, too; I loved visiting here --- until I lived here and "saw" the town. There is a huge difference in perceptions of a vacation experience versus a living experience. |
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