Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #1 |
Good riddance Big Box ordinance! This poor County needs income FAST - shame on the citizens who fight employment and prosperity to occur in Pagosa. |
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #2 |
Agree and Amen.
Wal Mart is what it is and no way can I see it being the big, bad town killer. When I shop at the Durango Wally World, other stores in the vicinity benefit because I go there as well. I often eat at downtown restaurants either before or after Wal Mart.
Pagosa needs so much more than just a Wal Mart. We could discuss that until the cows come home.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #3 |
WalMart is NOT a big bad monster - look downtown and see the missing/closed businesses right now. What would be wrong with people from Chama, Dulce and Arboles shopping in Pagosa instead of going to Durango's WalMart? How many RVer's stop and shop at WalMarts? How many RV parks in PS are closed this year? Pagosa must join the 21st century. |
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Boomerkid
Registered: 12/19/08
Posts: 22
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| #4 |
I absolutely agree with both of you. Some of the small-minded business owners that are so afraid of a big box putting them out of business need to wake up and realize what an opportunity it could be for them! I think so many of them have been operating “status quo” for so long that the thought of actually marketing their business, expanding and differentiating their product lines from a big box, and providing CUSTOMER SERVICE is beyond their comprehension. Competition can actually be a good thing! The amount of additional business that would be brought in to them from having a big box in town would be a gold mine for them. Gee, what a concept! I would love to keep my money in Pagosa but I can’t afford to when I can save many hundreds of dollars a year by going to a big box in Durango or Farmington. On top of that I can go downtown Durango and eat at a nice restaurant, possibly spend some money at a local store there, and overall have an enjoyable day there. Now if you multiply myself by the others in Pagosa that do the same, think of all the money, i.e., tax revenue that is being lost to Durango or Farmington. It’s been said before, drive downtown Durango and try to find an empty parking spot on their main street. Not so easy. As far as a big box ruining the character of our town, what character does this town have anyway? If we keep on going the way we are we’ll have the “ghost town” look in no time. The look of our downtown is nothing to be proud of, and if I were a tourist I’d probably drive right on through. As Sherrill said, Pagosa needs to come into the 21st century. |
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #5 |
Pagosa already has the looks of a ghost town. Empty dirt lots right downtown (i.e. west of the County building), empty and abandoned buildings (some looking run down and trashy), businesses downsizing to smaller and smaller spaces or leaving completely...wake up, citizens, besides the monstrous new springs hotel/resort looming over the river, we are disappearing! |
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sensetalk2000
Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 109
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| #6 |
We are all preaching to the choir!!! Until the attitudes change of those in a position to move in another direction, we are wasting our breath.
They(whoever they are) cannot abandon the concept that more development produces a successful and viable community. They particularly are impressed and seduced by high-end planners.
There are so, so many people in Pagosa now who don't give a flip about what anybody does, simply because they have their second and third homes, can come and go whenever they please, don't have to work for a living and generally will not take the time to look beneath them. I don't mean any disrespect to them or their success in life.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #7 |
I will remain hopeful that Pagosa will not only accept but invite new businesses to town. We need help but we need to help ourselves.
Those who fight change and growth are encouraging this poor little town to keep looking more and more like a tourist town and less and less like a prospering and functioning community.
Growth is not bad. We must accept and embrace growth and change...that is life, that is normal. |
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planatlaw
Registered: 10/15/08
Posts: 21
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| #8 |
The council threw the baby out with the bath water when it rescinded the Big Box Ordinance. Not only did the council reject good planning in doing so, it rejected the hard work, research and community support that ordinance commanded. The few have dictated to the many; hardly, the basis for good democratic decision making.
The council did an about-face on the ordinance without the care and deliberation that went into the original ordinance, and in over-turning such an ordinance there needed to be even more deliberation.
A municipality is much like an apple, if there is a flaw in that apple you can usually cut it out and the rest of the apple is still good, but when the core goes bad, the whole apple is lost. So it is with muncipalities - when the downtown core is lost, the town is lost. Big box development would be the stake through the heart of downtown. It goes against all studies, reports and case studies of small towns vs. big box development to think otherwise.
In other words, the short-sighted and irresponsible action taken by the council in the name of saving PS will ultimately prove to be its undoing. |
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #9 |
I must disagree. I lived in DGO for many years before WalMart arrived. I protested WalMart at the City and County levels and fought hard against WalMart in DGO.
I saw it arrive, too. I saw downtown Durango continue to maintain its personality because the only roads in and out of DGO are so close to downtown.
But Durango has strident planning and zoning to prohibit downtown's unapproved demolition and requires remodeling or new construction to "look the part" of Durango. Pagosa lacks both, as we can see.
Pagosa's only road from the west headed north or south must go through downtown. From the south to west, same thing - through downtown; north from south, a stone's throw from downtown PS.
I don't think WalMart ALWAYS hurts small towns. |
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planatlaw
Registered: 10/15/08
Posts: 21
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| #10 |
Actually, Durango proves my point. It has a stong downtown, and did long before Walmart came in; they recognized in the 1970's the need to define their downtown, and have done a good job through strong and consistent leadership in making sure the downtown stays viable. They have a BID organization, adopted Main Street Program principles to guide them and have developed retail and services appropriate to the demographics of the city to keep people downtown.
Walmart did hurt other businesses along the commercial strips, and has impacted development along the corridor south of their downtown, which has been detrimental in that traffic has become such a problem, it is an impediment to the commercial businesses along that strip. Durango has positioned itself to make sure the downtown is preserved and if anything goes (which it will) it will be the Walmart.
Commercial strip development is a dinosaur whose day is over. With the end of cheap oil, downtowns like Durango's will become even stronger, and they have already pledged to move in that direction by putting a transportation hub downtown.
PS has no central focus, no viable downtown, and no organized effort to make the downtown viable. The uptown development has sucked the downtown dry, and because the uptown developments are all spread out in a suburban-like fashion, they are very likely to go the way of commercial strip development elsewhere. The uptown development does not take advantage of this communities amenitities and viewsheds, and is really not something this community needs or wants to protect. I find it highly unlikely a big box developer will find this community attractive since it is not positioned for good dynamic growth with any community character or culture A bet on big box is a loser; better to suck it up and get the PS house in order to protect and enhance what's here.
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #11 |
Your lawyer is showing!
I won't argue a subject that you've been anxious to tackle for a long, long time. I notice you are semi-retired. Seems to me you have a whole lot of pent up lawyering left in you :) Are you really ready to enjoy retirement?
Instead of arguing, which I did for years in Durango before my own retirement, I'll mosey on over to the threads that don't provoke my ire! |
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planatlaw
Registered: 10/15/08
Posts: 21
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| #12 |
My situation is not by choice. The inmates are running the asylum, and lesser minds have prevailed. The three components to a good understanding of a community to define for the future are custom, character, and culture. In a transitional community like PS, it is important that the public be a part of an inclusive process to determine those three traits for the past, present and future. Then and only then can something like "big box" development be seen in context, evaluated for its impacts, and molded to the community instead of the community having to mold itself to the development.
Unfortunately, this community already went through the Fairfield development that required the community to mold itself to that development. One would think they might have learned from that experience.
As for downtown - keep it simple and that means following the Main Street Program, which depends on "DOPE" - design, organization, publicity, and economic restructuring. Right now the community is not following those basics; much less the downtown. |
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #13 |
You make sense and I ideologically agree with you - no, I WOULD ideologically agree with you, planatlaw, if I held any hope of Pagosa evolving in the next 25 or even 50 years.
I've fought the fight and I'm tired. Perhaps Pagosa-itis has limited my once clear vision and I can no longer see past the end of my nose, like the other inmates? |
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planatlaw
Registered: 10/15/08
Posts: 21
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| #14 |
Perserverance generally prevails. In this case, educating people so they do not continue electing people who shoot from the hip, and who narrowly gauge an issue based on their own personal interests rather than the public's best interests, is the only way to counter-act pervasive ignorance. Hang in there. |
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Sherrill
Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 98
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| #15 |
Sigh, your vision and intellect should be put to greater use. Yes, I must hang in there!
I'd like to see Pagosa prosper in my lifetime but in my heart, I don't believe it will happen. I appreciate the insight, opinions and thought-provoking ideas I experience at this exciting public forum. |
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